Diskussjoni:Imperium Europa

Attention Vandal, Give it up. You won't win. S^rl | lblb 18:35, 22 Ottubru 2005 (UTC)

Protected whilst we work out some IP address issues. Note to all, feel free to write here if you have anything you would like to discuss on this page. The point here is hardly to prevent any changes on this page, but they need to be done in a reasonable way. S^rl | lblb 09:24, 23 Ottubru 2005 (UTC)

Changes made by 212.56.128.20 on 25.8.2006 between 18:49 and 18:59

I'm writing this comment in English since one of our admins is an English Speaker. Changes made by 212.56.128.20 on 25.8.2006 between 18:49 and 18:59 are problematic.

Dear anonymous editor. You write.

Il-moviment jemmen ukoll fid-distinzjoni razzjali bejn ir-razez differenti tad-dinja.

• Are you referring to the Human genetic variation of race or to the social interpretations of race? You should make this clear. Yet which ever way you put this, both views lead to logical inconsistencies. If you are referring to the first, it follows that Imperium Europa is aiming at depriving a good part of the Maltese native population of their citizenship and identity within the so called Imperium Europa - this, seen that there is a good deal of North African --> Middle Eastern genetic stock in the Maltese population. If you are referring to the second variation, it follows, that all African immigrants are welcome by Imperium Europa - seen that African immigrants are an integral part of European society today.

What I was referring to was the Human genetic variation of race. Now, hold on: I only stated what the Movement's credentials are. That said, even though the Movement believes that there are difference amongst Races, it doesn't mean that those who are not of European stock are going to be ill-treated. As regards Maltese and North African stock, I'd say Middle Eastern stock... There is also a good deal of European stock anyway. (answer by anonymous user( ref added by jlm))

(post-edit-jlm) - thanks, apperantly Middle Eastern outweighs European and North African, though I still have no data on the latter ( [1], [2], [3] )

I had a quick look at the credentials on their site. I suggest that you - and we - be careful to clearly distinguish what the group says and what we write in this article. There'd be no end if we were to discuss all the inconsistencies in what they say there.

Let us just stick to the most fundamental inconsistency: An essential trait of this party is Pan Europeanism. It is not only a racialist doctrine but also a supremacist one. The Pan Europeanism form of white supremacism, accepts all native Europeans — though, of course, there can always be dispute as to who counts as native. But by standards of Pan Europeanism you could exclude a great deal of Maltese from their Patria Nostra: If Imperium Europa would consistently want to fit Maltese of Middle-Eastern Stock into a supremacist group they'd have to choose Pan Aryanism. I think that undermines a great deal of further views and "theories" and should suffice here.

This said, I by no means give any value to these categories .. (jlm) --joelemaltais /^Talk 19:16, 26 Awissu 2006 (UTC)

If the party's belief is that of a Pan-European Empire, well and good! I mean, Wikipedia readers have all right to know what this Imperium Europa is, be it an Ethno-Nationalist Movement or a Pan-European one! I personally disagree with the Pan-European view (I'm not part of Imperium Europa Movement, by the way - even though I sympathise with them on some issues), but that's what Imperium Europa Movement is - Pan-European - so, that's how it oughts to be described, be it on wikipedia or on TV. (anonym. user)

I surely agree that Wikipedia readers have all the right to know what Imperium Europa is, yet just reporting what the party claims it is just does not suffice. The party, for instance, claims not to be racist yet you get an article by Norman Lowell in praise of BNP ex John Tyndall, you get comments which are so outspokenly racist. I thus disagree with this article mostly in what it ommits and less in what it says - --joelemaltais /^Talk 12:31, 01 Ottubru 2006 (UTC)

You say:

it doesn't mean that those who are not of European stock are going to be ill-treated.

Hmmm their site speaks different language: http://www.vivamalta.org/main/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=98&Itemid=34

so these people just drown for fun and not for despair. Could you top that cynicism --joelemaltais /^Talk 19:16, 26 Awissu 2006 (UTC)

In the link you submitted there's written that the wind does a better job than the Government to halt Illegal Immigration. Now, without being too sensationalist, one can admit that it is true. VivaMalta.org Staff is simply saying it how it is - be it politically correct or not. Furthermore, there's no reference to ill-treatment in such an image. It's not like, "May they [illeg. immigrants] drown!", but it's like, "If there's wind, they won't even attempt to set sail". Anon. user

I still consider that as cynicism -

you say

...Il-mewġa ta' immigrazzjoni illegali mill-Afrika li qed taħkem lill-Ewropa u b'mod  
speċjali lil Malta.

• In my opinion we have a NPOV problem here. With the term immigrazzjoni illegali there is a wide span of debatable interpretation. Seen the gravity and consequences of branding and stigmatising a group people you should point this out. You so ostentively choose the negative version further strengthened by the following metaphor mewġa.. racial discourse par excellence (jlm)

Again, I'm stating the Movement's credentials. The Movement is against the recurrent influx of illegal immigrants in Europe. Period.

Now, regarding "mewġa", it's a Maltese term for "influx" / en masse landing - when used within this context, of course. Mind you, this term is being used by almost every local TV and Radio station - that includes, Net TV, Super 1 TV, X-FM Radio and others. (anon. user)

Dear friend, I’d go back and rethink this, especially the consequences of imprecision in this case – there is a considerable amount of valuable information on en.wikipedia which could help you get some facts right and help contribute to a good article. --joelemaltais /^Talk 10:29, 26 Awissu 2006 (UTC)